Fishing Streamers...?

[Garhan]

Very nice and instructive, thanks guys for all the information. The little that I fish of streamers tends to be either on a floating line, or with a sink tip, both easy to mend. On a lake, an intermediate line is all I seem to ever need for pike!

Now a question: I know these classics were tied on long-shank hooks and they look just right. However, my experience with long shanks is that they apply a lot of leverage and can come out easily. Some argue that is because the hook works itself loose and does more damage to the fish than a short shank. How much of this is true? My limited experience with the longer shank (3x-4x) is that I loose fish easily, so that is some anecdotal evidence in support of at least some of the claims. How about the rest?

Florin

 

All the above is true about long shank hooks. I use mostly 3 to 4X and don't have as much of a problem. But a deeper gap can also make a significant difference in keeping hooked up.

[phly1]

The Rangely streamers that you guys are talking about were tied without being weighted.They are tied on long shank hooks to imitate the baitfish in the area for which designed. They were on long shank hooks because of the lenght required. These flies were designed to be used predominantly for landlocked salmon and larger brookies that inhabited the lakes in this area. They were also fished and still are fished in the river systems but when doing this the wings are shortened up so that they will not foul around the hook shanks. When they are fished in lakes the wings are lenghtened and they are trolled. They were fished with spinning rods as well as fly rods equiped with sinking lines or at times in the shallows with floating lines and long leaders. I have fished these patterns and some of my own as well with sucess in the lakes in sask and alberta. You are right,the long shank may be thrown by the quarry ,but if you keep the line properly tight you should have no more problems than having to use a barbless hook.

[Garhan]

The Rangely streamers that you guys are talking about were tied without being weighted.They are tied on long shank hooks to imitate the baitfish in the area for which designed. They were on long shank hooks because of the lenght required. These flies were designed to be used predominantly for landlocked salmon and larger brookies that inhabited the lakes in this area. They were also fished and still are fished in the river systems but when doing this the wings are shortened up so that they will not foul around the hook shanks. When they are fished in lakes the wings are lenghtened and they are trolled. They were fished with spinning rods as well as fly rods equiped with sinking lines or at times in the shallows with floating lines and long leaders. I have fished these patterns and some of my own as well with sucess in the lakes in sask and alberta. You are right,the long shank may be thrown by the quarry ,but if you keep the line properly tight you should have no more problems than having to use a barbless hook.

Excellent input.

[SnoWolf]

So after all comments here(thx all) and talking to Barry P at the auction and reading the page Garhan suggested I have decided to take a stroll down this path and see what happens....

[phlygirl]

Awesome thread Welcome to the dark side Jim, we have cookies, Jungle Cock and abundant saddles that the fashion industry doesn't want; it's fantastic.

 

Just a few more comments to add from the newbie side of things:

 

If you haven't already, start off with a simpler pattern than some of Carrie's more famous ones. My first was Herb Welch's Black Ghost. I believe the dressing came from Joseph D. Bates’ “Streamers and Bucktails: The Big Fish Flies”. It's simple, has minimal materials for this style of fly and it really gave me a good solid base to build on. When I got into some of the more complex patterns that have belly materials, cheeks or shoulders, multiple wings and materials in between the wings I found myself going back to the basics that I learned while tying the Black Ghost. For myself, the key really is that wing mount - you can have a beautifully tapered body, all the flash and jazz you want in the middle of the wings, layered throats and whatnot, but if you mash those wings on improperly, it all goes down the tubes. The fly looks bizarre and doesn’t ride right while fishing it.

 

Many of the classic featherwings are tied on 8-10XL hooks. I found this length really difficult when just starting to tie these - the proportions are killer! Go for a 6-7XL and you'll most likely find that the proportions are quite natural on this length. I use this length for a lot of the patterns I tie, both casting and trolling flies. Works quite nicely in smaller sizes too - I've had quite a bit of luck on the NSR with streamers tied on the old Mustad 3665As down to size 10 and 12. I'm not a fan of featherwing streamers being tied on 4XL or shorter hooks... in my eyes they just don't hold up aesthetically. They look stunted and squished.

 

There are quite a few long shank hooks out there with a loop eye. I still struggle with this because some of them are beautiful hooks, but these streamers when fully loaded with cheeks, eyes, etc. are quite heavy on the front end. I find it difficult to compensate for the loop while dealing with all the materials that go on up by the eye.

 

Regarding holding power with long shanked hooks - in my own experience I have found that hooks with open, round bends and wider gaps are not so good. Hooks that have a tighter gap and sharper bends (i.e.: the Limerick Bend) have worked much better for me personally. That being said, I still get caught not keeping my line tight and not keeping up to the fish no matter the shank length. I've lost just as many Grayling on shorter hooks as I have Trout on longer ones.

 

In addition to the awesome links provided by other posters, check out:

www.streamerlist.com – social media site for long fly lubbers J

http://globalflyfisher.com/streamers/ - check out Mike Boyer’s streamers, some serious jaw droppers in there. There are some really helpful articles on this site

http://www.streamertyer.com/ - great images and an awesome references page

http://nwflytyer.wordpress.com/tying-notes/classic-streamer-class-notes/ - some fantastic tips in here

[SnoWolf]

Mmmmmm. Cookies.

Couple of awesome sites. I have not tied any as of yet as this is still a budding idea. Hope to have my tying stuff set up soon then I will be chasing everyone down for some lessons...

[Junior]

You are right,the long shank may be thrown by the quarry ,but if you keep the line properly tight you should have no more problems than having to use a barbless hook.

 

No offense, but this contradicts some pretty basic physics. The fish can only make use of the leverage when the line is tight.

 

Tyed traditionally they're beautiful, but part of my own aesthetic includes practical considerations. Aaron and Barry inspired me to start tying featherwing streamers, but my fishing flies will probably never be tyed on anything longer than 4XL, and I honestly like the look of them as much or more, in their own way. I tye to throw, but if I ever tye one for show, it'll likely be on a CS15.

 

By the way, phlygirl, I found some long shanks with a blue metallic finish, and thought of you right away.

[Garhan]

 

You are right,the long shank may be thrown by the quarry ,but if you keep the line properly tight you should have no more problems than having to use a barbless hook.

 

No offense, but this contradicts some pretty basic physics. The fish can only make use of the leverage when the line is tight.

 

Tyed traditionally they're beautiful, but part of my own aesthetic includes practical considerations. Aaron and Barry inspired me to start tying featherwing streamers, but my fishing flies will probably never be tyed on anything longer than 4XL, and I honestly like the look of them as much or more, in their own way. I tye to throw, but if I ever tye one for show, it'll likely be on a CS15.

 

By the way, phlygirl, I found some long shanks with a blue metallic finish, and thought of you right away.

 

Hmmmm. Not to be contradictory but I cant agree. I believe there is enough shank length to the point that the line doesn't matter as much. Fulcruming doesn't require great pressure or lengths of leverage (a little can do a lot) on the beam section, just a well or properly placed fulcrum (Done inadvertently by a trouts jaw is all that is needed.) Line drag in the water would generate enough friction or weight pull against the hook as well. Especially if the fish is heading in an opposing or azimuth, lateral direction from the fly line that is laying loose or not tight to the rod or reel.But at the end of the day it really doesn't matter what a person believes. The fish is gone either way.

 

 

[Junior]

Awesome thread Welcome to the dark side Jim, we have cookies, Jungle Cock and abundant saddles that the fashion industry doesn't want; it's fantastic.

 

The way I hear it, the fashion industry doesn't want the saddles they have, or any other feathers in particular. When the fad was big, the hair salons bought up everything they could find, now they're trying to sell them back to the fly shops. At least they're not being greedy, and only want to recover their costs. Know anyone looking for a $1000 saddle?