Eco With A Difference

[dipperdan]

I know this has nothing to do with fishing , but it does because we have to drive there. Has any one tried Eco fuel saver from Canadian Tire? I saw an advertisment on the weather network, checked the reviews and it seems to be a good product to save gas and emmisions. We have to travel a few kms to different fishing holes and it would really help if this product will help on the fuel bill and the emisions.

 

Any experience with this product?

 

It sounds good to me.

 

Dan

[Terry H]

Is that the same stuff they sell on the midway at the Exhibition every summer? Thermodynamics rule. Terry

[dipperdan]

Is that the same stuff they sell on the midway at the Exhibition every summer? Thermodynamics rule. Terry

I don't know. I don't go to the midway, but if it adds some extra mileage than thats dynamic enough for me!!!!!!

Dan

[vince]

Dan

 

Have not heard of it but if you come up with anything do let us know as the MPG on a Jeep is not that good and anything that would help would be great for the pocket book.

 

Vince

[Kristi]

Dan,

 

I think this product is awesome!! I use it in several different vehicles. Im wanting to try it out in my motorcycle next spring. I have heard and or read of people using EFS in several variations of motors wich use different forms of fule! It not only saves on fule and emmisions it will preserve the longevity of your engin.. and take you that much further between regular maitenenc. Not saying that I strech my regular maitencen out on my vehicle cause I can't neglect my baby like that.. also I'm NOT saying either that if you do go that much further between maitenenc that you are neglecting your baby. To each their own when it comes to looking after their transport!

The diffrence between this product and premium fule is that you ad the EFS with regular grade fule where as premium has it mixed in already. Another diffrence is cost. For myself it is cheaper to get a bottle and add it than it is to buy it at the gas bar. As it was only a treat for me to buy premium for my car once a month and now I can use EFS all the time. You may see anywhere from 10% - 25% performance increase all depending on your vehicle make and model. And of course how you drive it!! I did not see a differences right away but I felt it and heard it! =) The question I have now is wether the performance increase is stabilized at a hard%age or if it fluctuates...only time will tell I guess!

 

Kristi

[DennisS]

maybe I will have to give it a try. Wonder if it would add longjivity to my electric boat motor

Heck it's only been 4days since my last fix and I'm getting punchy already.

 

Have to try that stuff when I pulling the 5wheel. It would be nice to gain a mail or two pulling that.

 

Tight Lines Always

Dennis S.

[dave robinson]

Remember the saying "There's no such thing as a free lunch"?

That applies to almost all the "gadgets" that claim to improve fuel efficiency, furnace and boiler efficiency etc.

Another thing to remermber is that car manufacturers spend a heck of a lot of time and effort

to maximize fuell efficiency for their products as that is often a key selling point.

Automotive engineers design their engines to squeeze every ounce of energy out of the fuel you buy.

They also tell you which grade of fuel works best in your specific vehicle and engine.

All that advice is backed up by extensive laboratory, dynamomoeter and on-road testing.

Any aditive that would add a milor two per gallon woudl certainly be examined by the engineers

and if it actually worked, they would tell the car buyer so as to impove their chances of a sale to a satisfied customer.

And any gasoline refiner that knew for sure that the addtitve would improve mileage in many or all vehicles

would be dang sure to include it in their product in order to outsell their competitors.

And for those who believe in fuel company and car maker conspiracies regsarding milage:

that's a lot of companies with many thousand employees who would have to keep the secret.

And be careful of anecdotal evidence .

Driving habits, atmospheric and road conditions and vehicle performance and miantenance vary greatly over time.

The only way to validate claims would be to conduct a properly controllled scientific study

that involved hundreds of double blind tests with extraneous variables eliminated.

Anytihing less is rumour or junk science at best and outright lies at worst

Edited November 15, 2011 by dave robinson

[dipperdan]

So Dave, when someone tells you that they use a product and they say they find there is an improvment and they have no monitary gain. You are saying this individual is not telling the truth ?

Just asking?

Dan

[dave robinson]

Dan:

Not at all.

What I'm saying is beware of manufacturers who advertise their product without good scientific evidence to back its claims.

 

What I am also saying is that you can't credit ancdotal responses as being definitive.

Energy efficiency of internal combusiton engines is a very complex topic, particularly when installed in mobile devces like cars.

For automobile milage, driver habits are by far the largest variable.

After that comes atmospheric conditions. A slight change in average temperature can have enourmous apparent effects.

Things like tolerances, lubrication and engine operating temperature vary a lot and all these affect efficiency.

And don't forget that fuel is measured by the pump with correction of actual volume to a volume at a standard temperature.

When filling up in colder weather you actually get much less gas than the pump says and less than you pay for.

Road, engine and tire onditions also affect efficiency.

Running on gravel or dirt is quite different from pavement and there's even a signifigant difference between rough and smooth pavement.

Taking your car for a good hiway run can clean out carbon deposits and lubricate valves etc enough to affect milage.

Simply using nitrogen as a fill gas in tires can make a difference as the dry fill gas helps maintain a constant pressure over a wider temperature range.

 

So what I'm saying is that yes, a user of a product may report that they find an improvement, but cannot definitively say it's due exclusively to the product.

There are too many extraneous factors to account for.

That a common problem with testimonials.

Dave

 

quote name='dipperdan' date='Nov 15 2011, 09:27 PM' post='23779']

So Dave, when someone tells you that they use a product and they say they find there is an improvment and they have no monitary gain. You are saying this individual is not telling the truth ?

Just asking?

Dan

Edited November 16, 2011 by dave robinson

[Junior]

Seems to me, a few years ago the american economy tanked, and the US auto makers were in a lot of trouble. Somehow, between one year and the next, MPG's on some models nearly doubled. Suspicious, no?

 

As far as keeping thousands of employees quiet goes, that would be a really lousy way to keep a secret. If the auto makers are keeping secrets, I'm sure only a few top-level people are in on it.

Edited November 16, 2011 by dave robinson

[dave robinson]

Not all vehicles models make substanitve changes in drive train every year,

so an across the board change in MPG ratings likely wasn't a conspiracy of some 20 outo makers world wide

MPG ratings are a bit of a game, even though the EPA has a pretty strict testing protocol

So any large change in MPG ratings may heve had more to do with marketing and testng regimes than with actual dreve train efficiency.

 

The manufacturer's game played is with what engine and what vehicle is tested and in what category.

And that is often driven by marketing and not actuial vehicle performance

If the marketing strategy changes from economy to power, then the milage will change too.

The manufacturers can play that game with something as simple as rear end ratios as a trade off between milage and accelleration

 

The EPA also played some games with what category each vehicle feel into by altering the way they were categorized,

For instance I know one year the Subaru Outbck fell into the light truck category

Then the EPa changed the definition of what was a light truck, so the next year it fell into the SUV category

Then Subaru changed the ground clearance with some minor cosmetics and it went back to being a light truck

This year the Outback came is a heavier vehicle with the top model having a 3-5 L engine up from a 3.0

They didn't care too much abotu thte drop in milage as their target audience changed for that model.

 

And as for a few top people being able to keep that kind of secret?

Well those 20 odd manufacturers have hundreds of engineers and designers

and lots of testing and assembly line workers who aren't exactly stupid

Not to mention the independent car testing agencies and magazine publishers

You can't get all thos people to agree on the time of day let alone keep them quiet about a monster conspiracy.

[dipperdan]

Just hear say . but what the heck. My wifes uncle had a dealership in a small town in eastern Alberta. A client of his ordered a car, in the 1960's, he was amazed by the milage he was getting. He shortly received a little asking him to return the car do to a factory issue. Story has it that, he did , end of the story, As I heard it. Money talks and the AUTO industry are very BIG Players, Environmentaly. They play us BIG TIME, Oil, Gas, Roadways , BIGTIME.You heard of the senator from NY ,the eastern States, THE RENTS TO DAM HIGH.....Jimmy McMillin

 

 

 

WELL THE AUTO'S ARE TOO DAM HIGH,THE GAS IS WAY TOO DAM HIGH.AND OUR RENT IS TOO DAM HIGH, TOO!!!!!!!!

\

I'm just sayen......

WE NEED A BREAK, and this is not god given, but, it just might work......and some say it do. so be it......

 

I will attempt to see if it will help , so far, my car does seem to run smoother, mileage has not been determined.

Life is about having fun isn't it? So, lets have at it.... soory for the spelling

 

Dan

[dipperdan]

We go fishen, not always catchen.

Dan

[Pierre]

You all need to watch the video

 

"Who killed the Electric car ?"

 

VERY enlightening.

[Terry H]

I'm with Dave on this one, although he took 10,000 words to say what I was trying to say with two words in my original post. I repeat for your reading pleasure: thermodynamics rule. Put another way, you can only squeeze so much useful energy from a fuel, and today's vehicles come pretty close to getting it all. It would be nice if we could just pour in a bottle of secret juice to get more, but sadly folks, it's not going to happen.

 

The answer as to whether or not this additive works or not, will not come from anecdotal "evidence." I will believe it only after I see some controlled experimental data. I suspect it will be a long wait. Yikes, it's snowing here. Terry

[Junior]

You all need to watch the video

 

"Who killed the Electric car ?"

 

VERY enlightening.

I have, and I agree.

[vince]

Terry

 

Snowing and blowing here in Edmonton...not a pleasant day at all. Being indoors with the heater on allows me to think of ways of making my Jeep more thermodynamic....any ideas.

 

Vince

[Grumpy]

Terry

 

Snowing and blowing here in Edmonton...not a pleasant day at all. Being indoors with the heater on allows me to think of ways of making my Jeep more thermodynamic....any ideas.

 

Vince

 

 

Yes Buy a new good vehicle

[Kristi]

Oh my have I created a rift in the club!?? maybe this MAY help some to understand!

 

http://ecofuelsaver.com/index.html

 

I had to be sold on it too..by buddys worked me over hard to convince me. I dont rave about it because of fule savings only.... But in my situation for MYSELF it helps and "I BELIVE" in the ptoduct. And I AM STANDING UP FOR IT! I respect and value what you all say and mention to me in re: to this sport. But also like any other I want to form my own opinions and judgements by learning about it before I say Baahhh to it. And I also think that we are all entitled to our OPINIONS. And never would I judge a book by it's cover! You dont know unill you try it. Like I tell male after male don't dicredit me cause I look like a girl and am a hairstylist by second trade! . Never have to tell women this cause well quite typically and apparently I speak a whole diffrent language to them. I find this semi amusing..

 

Thanks

 

p.s dont worry I'm watching "Who Killed The Electic Car ?' right now!

 

 

Ok I watched it!!

[Kristi]

I recall all the hype and splendor of the release of the electic car... did some more looking around and a little reading and talk about this "heated" topic with my buddys even then its "heated". We sit and B.S and quetion the actual like expectancey of the EL/CR and the cost of batteries and all that crap that goes with it.. then the conversation turns.. with this ---> "if we dispose of household batteries properly they go to a facility and are delt with.. what exactly happens to the batteries for those cars then; how often are they replaced; and what happens to the car's after the drivers 5-7year driving experience.. all legit questions.. But not only that do we actually know what kind of emmissions are being created making the batteries and the car itself and the disposal of the batteries and the care after use, and does the battery cell change if it is ever required for the HEAVY DUTY truck; will it perform?? " Thease questions are for real. Amongst my buddys and I.

Think...think.. think..

 

 

 

 

your friendy neighbourhood S.D!

~to ammusing!

[dave robinson]

Electric cars only displace the emissions, not reduce them.

In Alberta, virtually all electricity is produced with fossil fuels, mostly coal, with some gas and a teeny bit of wind and hydro.

If you look closely into the overall efficiency of fuel burn, steam generation, electric generation, transmission, transformation, distribution and the motor itself

and compare it to the same fuel efficiency of an internal combustion engine, you''ll find that it's a very close race

and if you're talking about comparing a gas furnace to and electric one, then it isn't even close, gas wind hands down

So emission and co2 wise, the planet benefits squat.

Unless of course you do a massive switch to renewable generation sources or nuclear.

[Pierre]

My suggestion to watch that movie was not about "emissions", but rather 'fuel economy"

 

In the movie it talks about fuel economy, and the auto manufacturers increased it in their vehicles ONLY AND AFTER legislation was passed forcing them to increase it.

[Terry H]

.............................and the auto manufacturers increased it in their vehicles ONLY AND AFTER legislation was passed forcing them to increase it.

NEWS FLASH, THIS JUST IN: Corporations exist to make profit, otherwise they go out of business -- or get bailed out by governments.

 

Why on earth would you expect any car manufacturer to increase the cost of their product by increasing fuel efficiency? This is not an evil conspiracy, it's just a fact of free market capitalism. If you want to try the alternative, I'm sure they have a few Ladas left over there in Russia. Not sure though whether their fuel efficiency is better than a Ford or GM product. Terry