Don Andersen Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 Guys/Gals, At the last count, we are now up to 4 of what used to be trout lakes that have been "stocked" with perch. These would include: Cow Lake Struble Lake Twin Lake Tay Lake So far only Tay and Cow has the effect been profound with growth rates of the trout dropping although Struble does seem to share the effect with 3 year old trout now about 11" long. Cow is no longer stocked with trout due to the perch infectation [except for brood stock which aren't really trout ] . We only have another 1/2 dozen or so left that are not yet effected in the area. Two questions: 1] How many lakes in the Edmonton area have been effected? 2] What is going to be done about it? catch ya' Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 (edited) By "stocked" do mean by the Gov't or the Perch just ended up in there somehow? Hasse Lake Eden Morinville Cardiff Peanut Spring Lake Spring Lake and Peanut seam to be the worst affected. In the past, Spring Lake was producing some really big Rainbows. I went out this past fall fishing Waterboatmen patterns and didn't catch one trout. Caught 15 Perch though Hmmmm.... wonder why I spent most of my summer fishing Muir eh? Cheers Edited November 15, 2004 by Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tys Flies Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 Doc add the Morninville fish and game pond to that as well. Its in the town of Morinville. My dad and I ice fished it last winter and were catching a bunch of dinkie perch when suddenly he hooked up with something he thought was a good sized perch out of the hole came a 13" rainbow. Lets hope Muir doesnt get hit with bucket biology syndrome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Andersen Posted November 16, 2004 Author Share Posted November 16, 2004 Doc, Stocked - well it may have been by the Gov't but in the lakes around Rocky, that is very unlikely. Mostly stocked by people using perch for bait. And I heard yesterday that Phyllis Lake is no longer "perch free". Guess that means the little basss**** is gonna have to work harder, he's only screwed 1/2 of the lakes. And what are we going to do about it. Don't see the Gov't hot on fixing much. catch ya' Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted November 16, 2004 Share Posted November 16, 2004 Not sure if it would be guys around here using Perch as bait. Could be fish-eating birds dropping Perch from the sky (most of these lakes are all real close) or maybe bucket biologists looking for more Perch fishing oportunities during hard water. Some of these lakes like Hasse, Spring and Eden have had Perch dating back many years and now it seams a population explosion has occured in some (Spring is a good example). What do we do about it? I know some of the guys are choked at the Edmonton Trout Club and were considering not turning the aerators on at Spring Lake this winter maybe hoping the lake would winterkill. How serious they are about that I can't say. The aerators may already be running, not sure. I know when I was a kid, they would poison a lake and put that lake out of commision for about four years (maybe more) when another species was introduced. Ghost lake up north was a stocked trout lake and someone introduced Pike to the lake. The Gov't poisoned the lake and then restocked it but the Pike either survived or someone tossed some more Pike in there. It's been a Pike lake ever since. I think it would help if we knew 'for sure' how these Perch were getting into these lakes and then what the Gov't feels about the Perch in these lakes. Maybe the Gov't doesn't really care. I know I sent an e-mail to Stephen Spencer (Stony Plain area biologist) two years back regarding the illegal introduction of Koi into Lake Eden and although 'he' was very concerned, as far as I know nothing has been done about it. The Koi are alive an well and getting bigger each year. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tys Flies Posted November 16, 2004 Share Posted November 16, 2004 I remember many years back when they killed off Hasse to do a stickleback infestation and then restocked again. Like you talk I remember them poisoning the lakes. I am not to certain what can be done about the perch. I don't think it is people using perch as bait, it is either nature at work, or illegal introduction. I find that with these perch they propagate so fast that they end up stunting their own growth as well as hindering anything else that lives in the lakes. So perhaps those people that feel all lakes should be perch-filled should look at this, as their intentions are not all that successful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimD Posted November 16, 2004 Share Posted November 16, 2004 I don't think they poisoned Hasse Lake to get rid of the Sticklebacks, it was discussed as an option but never went anywhere. The last lake I remember getting poisoned was McLeod (nee Carson) and that was a long time ago. Please correct me if I am wrong. As for Spring Lake, I won't know about the aeration there until I go to the trout club meeting tonight. EFTC only owns a share of Spring's aerators and we are not in a position to dictate if they get turned on or if they are left in storage. Regards, Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Andersen Posted November 16, 2004 Author Share Posted November 16, 2004 Doc, I think it's safe to say that perch are hauled from place to place by people. If it was by birds, the whole province would be infested by the damn things. The infestation in Rocky started 15 years ago. Prior to that , no perch except for Burnstick Lake. If there were going to be perch anywhere, Birch Lake located with 2 miles of Burnstick Lake would have been the first victim. As it is Brich Lake has been bypassed mostly I think as it gets very little attention for the bait dunker crowd. Now we got them, what are we gonna do about it? If we let things continue @ the present rate, every lake around Rocky will be infested within 5 years. catch ya' Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted November 16, 2004 Share Posted November 16, 2004 Don : Threre is no doubt in my mind that these perch additions are intentional by idiots. The government people I know are just as upset with this as we are but don't have the answers to prevent it. Millers Lake underwent the same problem but we managed to get rid of them with a good winterkill. Fortunately the idiots have not returned yet. We have a new one now - crayfish ! Carson Lake is loaded with them to all sizes up to 5-6 inches. I have no doubt that is part of the reason for the stunted trout in this lake, besides heavy fishing of course. Norm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 I'm sure they didn't poison Hasse either. I've been fishing it since I was ten and don't ever remember a summer I didn't fish it. I did hear about the idea to poison it due to the three-spine stickleback but I don't think it ever went through. So what is it we do? I too feel the Perch are the work of bucket biologists. But what's the answer? For all of our fisheries, I believe the answer to any of our problems is enforcement and education. Starting with the kids when they are in school, we should be educating them on the affects of over harvest, transplanting species of fish into other water bodies, the good and bad of C&R etc... As far as enforcement, remember hearing how you could loose your vehicle, boat and all your gear when you got caught poaching, fishing without a license etc? When I was a kid my dad used to preach to me how much trouble one could get in for not having a license, etc... I think the strictest of penalties should be given for anyone performing bucket biology, pretty much throw the book at them. Of course this won't help is in the short term. What do we do now? Does the Gov't even poison lakes today? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DennisS Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 Doc and TimD both are right Hassie was not poison they discuss it also they had put signs up stating they were going to do it. But they notice that the trout were starting to control the population of the 3spine stickleback so they cancel the program. As to what to do that one is at a loss. Maybe as Doc said its time for an education program where we aproach the school system and have put in the outdoor ed a day of what fishing is about and what not to do and what fishing with live bait & transport of different fish to different water bodies can do to that system. ie perch or crawfish. Again thats a long term solution not a now solution. Tight Lines Always Dennis S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Andersen Posted November 17, 2004 Author Share Posted November 17, 2004 Guys, I wrote a couple of letters to F&W today asking them if they had solutions recognizing that whatever they were doing to this point wasn't working. Having said that, - I would expect that a poison control program is the only answer. Lets talk it up amoung the folks we meet here and there to get "buy in". Sure wouldn't want some well intentioned angler saying - but they are "natives" and shouldn't be destroyed. catch ya' Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 Good idea Don. Dennis, is this something the Northern lights could or would dicuss at tommorows meeting? Maybe ask for ideas and/or solutions to this problem. Also we should ask other anglers what they think about the problem. I hope we don't have to wait until someone throws some Perch in Muir before action is taken. If we just sit on this and do nothing, by the time we see how dreadful this problem can be it'll be to late and all our local lakes will be not worth the effort to fish them. I've already given up on fishing Spring Lake and won't go back until the Perch problem is fixed. Same goes for Eden and Cardiff. Seams we have three decent lakes left that are Perch free... Muir, Star and Dolberg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tys Flies Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 Sorry for my ignorance on the Hasse issue. I just remember being a kid that ice fished that lake quite often, and my cousin or relative had mentioned that they were going to poison it and then restock it. I thought this is what happened, as now the stickelback population is sufficiently lower then what it was. I definately think some club action needs to be taken, not only on our end of the Northern lights but with all the clubs in our vicinity. Poisoning these lakes seems a little harsh but if that is the action that needs to be taken in order to restore a degree of normalcy back into these lakes then I support it. However, as Doc mentioned stricter restrictions need to be inforced. Killing off the lakes will simply not eliminate the problem. You will only get short term results as the idiots will not go away and have been here since the beginning of man. My two cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DennisS Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 I can bring it up to tonights meeting and see what happens with it. Likely the quickest way of getting rid of the perch problem is poisoning. Because of the amt of lakes it would likely have to be on some sort of rotation because you wouldn't want all the lakes unfishable for several yrs until fish were big enought to be caught. Also I have a couple of people in the education end that I might talk to and see if there is an avenue in that direction again with the idea of the outdoor ed program and continuing education. The Northern Lights have never been much on the political side that goes back to day one. We have always put our support behind TU so that maybe an avenue as we are a club 150+ strong. See all tonight. PS Don mail your money order $50 for the Brian Chan Phil Rowley show to my home address 8505 39B ave. Edmonton AB T6K3E7 I will be sure you get the tickets. If you know of any others who would like to see them just have them mail me or email me at dsouthwick@shaw.ca and I can get in touch with them. Hope to see you soon. Tight Lines Always Dennis S. NLFT&F Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 Anything come out of the meeting Dennis? Any ideas or thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishman Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 I can remember fishing Carson lake before the first time they poisoned it, there was so many fresh water shrimp it was unreal and it had a very healthy population of mayflys.Since then the population of shrimp has declined(not sure if the overstocking of this lake affects this or not) also the mayflys have returnded after so many years but at such a low population. What i would say in what i have seen on how the poisioning affected this lake is a lower population of srhimp and mayflys. I am not a biologist, just my observation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Andersen Posted November 19, 2004 Author Share Posted November 19, 2004 Fishman, Overstocking of lakes have caused the disappearance most insects. Nearly all the lakes in Alberta are overstocked with trout and for that reason, the growth rate on trout in these lakes is just plain lousy. For example a 3 year old fish in Struble Lake SW of Rocky Mountain House is 11>12". In contrast, Beaver lake 1 year old fish is perhaps 13>16".The fish poision usually used is Rotanone [ or Rotonane depending on author ]. This web site deals with most if not all of the concerns that might/could be caused by using this type of treatment. Web site is: http://www.dfw.state.or.us/ODFWhtml/InfoCn...e/Rotenone.html And if we don't control the perch soon, we will have nothing left of the trout lakes. Growth rates will be measured in 1/4"/yr. Cow Lake near Rocky has virtually no insects left at all. The only bio-mass left is perch. They eat each other. The bugs are gone. Stocking trout in the face of this massive competion is a waste of trout. regards, Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimD Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 Spring Lake has 2 problems right now - perch and angler predation of trout. It looks like the aeration system is going in and so we are going to aerate a perch lake. Rotenone is pretty expensive and not very politically saleable. I think it would be wise to have a more natural solution - getting the lake stocked with meat-eating fish. I think it was Phil Rowley's idea and it may fly. I am going to check into stocking Spring with Brown Trout. Hopefully when the Browns get big enough they can start eating perch. If they can, then the problem would be to restict the harvest on the browns until enough perch are removed. I would not mind catching browns on perch flies - especially big browns with fangs. Regards, Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Andersen Posted November 20, 2004 Author Share Posted November 20, 2004 Tim, You can stock all the browns you want - just imagine - 40,000,000 browns in Cow Lake and even them they wouldn't go hungry. And after I looked over the site on rotanoe, saleable it is. After all, the natives in South America use it for fish gathering. They grind the root underwater between 2 stones, capture the dead fish and eat. Looks like a great plan. And from the site provided, the only safety concern was not swimming in the water within 4 hours. This stuff is less toxic than Power Bait. catch ya' Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerBob Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Deja vous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Andersen Posted February 11, 2009 Author Share Posted February 11, 2009 Rangerbob, Deja vous it isn't. To this point there has been little done to stop the perch infestation other than an attempt to create a plan to deal with the issue. Only through continuing efforts of fishermen will the infestation stop. I appreciate your efforts in aiding the development of the plan. regards, Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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